Legislature(2001 - 2002)

03/27/2002 01:40 PM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                                                                                                                                
          SB 263-AFTER ACQUIRED TITLE IN REAL PROPERTY                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Ms. Annette  Kreitzer if she had any further                                                              
testimony to provide on SB 263.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANNETTE KREITZER, Staff to Senator  Loren Leman, sponsor of SB
263,  said she  had  completed her  remarks.    She said  Chairman                                                              
Taylor was  going to speak with  a gentleman who testified  at the                                                              
previous meeting.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he had heard  from the gentleman but had been                                                              
unable to come to any conclusions  regarding his concerns.  He did                                                              
not have any amendments  to offer.  He asked if  there was anybody                                                              
who wished to testify on SB 263.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYAN  MERRELL, First American  Title Company of  Alaska, said                                                              
he was  the gentleman  they were speaking  of.   He said he  had a                                                              
lengthy  conversation with  Mr. Jon  Tillinghast  and others  from                                                              
Sealaska and they  weren't able to come to a  resolution to answer                                                              
his concerns.  He  said they could attempt to fashion  the bill so                                                              
that it only  applied to the situation facing Sealaska  but he had                                                              
concerns regarding  the constitutionality  of doing  so.   He said                                                              
others in his industry  were concerned as well.   He said the Land                                                              
Title Association  for the state of  Alaska, which was made  up of                                                              
underwriters  and title  insurance  agents  throughout the  state,                                                              
voted  at its  board meeting  to oppose  SB 263  because of  those                                                              
concerns.   He said those concerns  had not changed and  he hadn't                                                              
seen any suggestions which would alleviate those concerns.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Mr. Merrell to reiterate his concerns.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRELL said his concerns came  from changing an aspect of the                                                              
common law  to address  one particular  situation that  had arisen                                                              
with Sealaska.   He was also  concerned with the exception  to the                                                              
rule for  state-related  entities, which  meant the rule  wouldn't                                                              
apply  uniformly.     He  said  that  would  cause   anomalies  in                                                              
attempting to examine  and produce a title report  or title policy                                                              
related  to a  piece  of property  and make  it  difficult for  an                                                              
examiner to  make a  determination of the  intent of  the parties.                                                              
He said the situation might arise  where a quitclaim deed would be                                                              
issued involving  formerly  state-owned property.   He said  there                                                              
was confusion  and concern about how  far it could go and  when it                                                              
would stop  automatic pass through  a title when a  quitclaim deed                                                              
was used rather than a warranty deed.   He couldn't find any other                                                              
state  that had  made a  similar exception.   He  said many  times                                                              
quitclaim  deeds  were used  to  transfer  titles in  and  amongst                                                              
family  members, not  realizing the  potential  effect of  passing                                                              
after-acquired  interest and  whether or  not that would  continue                                                              
passing through  family members.   He said there were  no stopping                                                              
points  and  nothing  to  indicate when  that  would  or  wouldn't                                                              
happen.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  asked if  he had discussed  amending the  bill to                                                              
more  narrowly constrain  it.   He said  SB 263  as written  would                                                              
apply  to  people  and corporations  that  may  have  conveyed  by                                                              
quitclaim   deed.     He  said   it   specifically  excluded   the                                                              
Legislature, a  state agency, the  executive branch,  the judicial                                                              
branch,  the  University   of  Alaska  and  the   Alaska  Railroad                                                              
Corporation.  He said if the railroad  granted a quitclaim deed to                                                              
somebody, they  wouldn't be required to convey  any after-acquired                                                              
interest.   But if he  as a private  person conveyed  by quitclaim                                                              
deed,  any  after-acquired   interest  would  be   conveyed.    He                                                              
suggested  removing  subsection   (b)  on  page  2  and  rewriting                                                              
subsection (a) on page 1 so it would  specifically apply to Native                                                              
corporations.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRELL  said they had not  discussed that solution.   He said                                                              
the concept was  somewhat attractive.  He said  subsection (b) was                                                              
added at  the request  of the administration  because they  didn't                                                              
want the new rule to apply to them.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  said the State  had tentatively  selected certain                                                              
lands, some of which had been sold.   He said some might have been                                                              
issued a quitclaim  deed because the State didn't  have full title                                                              
or  final patent  or because  the State  cannot convey  subsurface                                                              
rights.   He said  a change  in the  law by  Congress could  cause                                                              
Alaskans  to own subsurface  rights, just  as Native  corporations                                                              
did.  He  noted that Congress had  said it was permissible  to own                                                              
subsurface rights for one type of  owner but not another.  He said                                                              
instead  of trying  to figure  out  who should  be excluded,  they                                                              
should try to figure out who wanted to be included.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JON TILLINGHAST,  Sealaska Corporation,  said  he drafted  an                                                              
amendment  to  that  end  that  would  work for  them.    He  said                                                              
subsection  (a) could  read something  like, "In  addition to  any                                                              
estate  passed  by the  grantor  under  AS 34.15.070,  whenever  a                                                              
person purports by  either (1) a warranty deed or  (2) in the case                                                              
of  real  property   conveyed  under  the  Alaska   Native  Claims                                                              
Settlement Act, a  quitclaim deed to grant real  property and then                                                              
subsequently acquired  interest then the  title passes."   He said                                                              
the new rule would apply in two situations:  the warranty deed for                                                              
everybody; and the quitclaim deed  for property conveyed under the                                                              
Alaska Native Claims  Settlement Act (ANSCA).   He said subsection                                                              
(b) could be deleted entirely.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  liked that  solution because  it limited  the new                                                              
rule enough so  that the title companies would know  that would be                                                              
the only situation they would have  to worry about in their search                                                              
for defects in title.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TILLINGHAST   was  confident   it  would  withstand   special                                                              
legislation criticism.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TAYLOR moved  Amendment #1 to  insert Mr.  Tillinghast's                                                              
words  into  subsection  (a)  beginning   on  page  1  and  delete                                                              
subsection (b)  on page  2.  He  asked if Sec.  3 and Sec.  4 were                                                              
still necessary.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. TILLINGHAST said they were.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if there was  any objection to Amendment #1.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Amendment #1 was adopted.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked  if Mr. Tillinghast had  anything further to                                                              
provide.  He did  not.  He asked Mr. Merrell if  he understood the                                                              
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRELL believed he did and believed it would alleviate their                                                               
concerns.  He noted that he would like to see the language.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR thanked Mr. Merrell and Mr. Tillinghast for their                                                               
participation.  He asked if there was anybody else who wished to                                                                
provide testimony on SB 263.  There was nobody.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS moved CSSB 263(JUD) out of committee with attached                                                                
zero fiscal note and individual recommendations.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, CSSB 263(JUD) moved out of committee                                                                  
with attached fiscal note and individual recommendations.                                                                       

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